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POLL: Arm Teachers?

MN legislator says yes, Gov. Dayton says no, but a Mpls. school staffer took matters into her own hands and brought a .357 Magnum to school. Should teachers bear arms?

 

Updated below. Should Minnesota teachers carry guns at school?

One staff member at a Minneapolis public school apparently thought so—according to authorities, she brought a loaded .357 Magnum to Seward Montessori Wednesday.

MN Rep. Tony Cornish (R-Vernon Center) has a bill that would let educators have firearms in classrooms, according to WCCO-TV. The idea is to prevent massacres like last week's mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT that left 20 students and seven adults dead. Cornish told WCCO:

“We found out that nothing else works, and I think teachers are the best people to confront this. Even an armed security or an armed cop doesn’t do a lot of good if they get by him or her. Then they’ve got all these classrooms that they can go to. So, I think the best defense is a teacher."

Update: Rep. Cornish told Patch by email Thursday:

"The bill has not been formed yet. I will introduce one, however. I just don't want to hurry it now that I've seen that two other states have announced they will work on a policy in the same way as Texas generally. I'd like to get as many examples as I can." (Those states are Virginia and Tennesse, he said.)

Gov. Mark Dayton (DFL) disagreed, saying, “I think that would increase the danger. To have weapons in classrooms, to me, just defies common sense," MPR reported.

The question of arming teachers has heated up across the country:

Do you support or oppose efforts to arm teachers? Take the poll above and leave a comment below.

  • Should school teachers be allowed to carry guns in the classroom?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes, and I'll tell you why in comments below.
        10 (30%)
    • No, and I'll tell you why not in comments below.
        23 (69%)
    Total votes: 33
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Armed Teachers, Newtown, Second Amendment, Seward Montessori, and Tony Cornish

mecadocaribe

10:53 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012

I'm friends with LOT of teachers. I can say that most if not all of them would be scared to death of just firing a handgun, much less using it on somebody. I don't see any problem with having an armed security guard in each school. Even if they were armed with tazers it would be better than nothing.

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Jennifer S

11:25 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012

If teacher had a gun they would have to keep it locked up. Plenty of damage would already be done by someone before anyone might be lucky enough to get it. Moreover, I know that someone would find a way to get a hold of that gun and cause trouble. I am open to hearing more about the possibility of a security guard being assigned to a school with a gun. Not sure about it - but would like to hear more about it.

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mecadocaribe

11:39 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Another good point! I didn't even think of having to lock it up. And concealed carry would be impractical for teachers that move around a lot like Art or Phy-Ed teachers.

Joy

12:13 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

If you don't have an arrest history and know how to use a gun (not just physically), then go get permits, buy one and carry one. -Massive shootings wouldn't happen if 70+% citizens were carrying.

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Amy Paddock

1:11 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Sorry Joy. You seem to only look at the slogan here. Teachers are suppose to be teaching, not worrying about keeping their guns from kids getting a hold of them. Most children are injured or killed in their own home from fire arms not being locked up.

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B. Martin

9:12 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

If 70+% of population carried weapons, I would expect more conflicts to results in shootings, Do you really think 70+% have the appropriate psychological makeup to refrain from using their weapons when angered?

waldo dumpfudge

1:08 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Publish that all teachers have a gun and know how to use it, and that there is a trained guard at the school.Most of these idiots are cowards and when confronted with force
usually shoot themselves.
How many deaths on the hwy's of CA yesterday (one day) 78.....we have to ban cars!!!

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Mark Rogers

8:30 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Bingo!
Stop blaming the gun and start blaming the person. A gun can't do anything until a person decides to do something with it.

Nicholas Goers

1:10 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

I would say No to just simply arming a teacher, but would ALLOW a teacher who possess a Conceal & Carry Permit to have one with them. I would rather see SRO's (School Resources Officers) who are local Police Officers for that city who are of course armed and ready to protect and serve!

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Mandy Meisner

1:21 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

While I understand the reaction to this terrible event, I would not support teachers carrying guns in school. A slippery slope...

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Eric M.

1:21 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

For the good our kids, we have to do something differently.
Similar to Nicholas' comment -- I think if a teacher has been verified/certified and wants to carry, then he/she should be allowed to (after some type of rigorous vetting process). It would only take a small amount of teachers or administrators to be carrying, to act as the deterrent. If the teacher does not want to, that's OK too.
Another option is to use plain clothes security. Not uniformed armed guards, as they can be easily "taken out". But use someone more akin to an air marshall on a plane.

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Amy Paddock

1:37 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Regarding teachers: Where would they keep it, for saftey reasons? Surely not on their person while in school, around kids? Nope. Not a good idea. Where then, where kids can't get a hold of it? What if a teacher doesn't want to have anything to do with guns? What if a teacher or staff member over reacts and kills someone? Or what happens if a kid, any age, gets a hold of it and harms someone else? The teacher assistant that brought that fire arm to school had it in her locker, what good would it do her there if she is not close to it? Do we actually know what trained means? We know Vets/military and Police officers who are trained, but have over reacted or made a mistake and harmed others because of it, you want that style of school system?

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Mark Rogers

8:36 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Amy, someone that has been taught how to carry and about gun safety understands how to keep guns out of kids hands.

And your concern about people over reacting and killing people is what we heard before the shall issue law was passed. People thought that there would be shootings over everything. They were wrong. It didn't happen. Blood did not run down the streets as was said would happen. Decent people don't do that, even if they have a gun on them. Decent people don't kill people because they are mad at them. Crazy people and criminals do that.

Brad Koehn

2:10 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

It occurs to me that what parents seem to want is not to keep their kids safe. If that were the case they wouldn't have a swimming pool, drive a car, have kitchens full of processed food, etc., all of which present a substantial risk to their kids' health.

What they want is to be free from worry themselves, about the things they can't control. Funny that so many care so little about the things they can control.

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Amy Paddock

5:12 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Thank you Callie, so neat to have your input.

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Shari Dion

6:12 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Callie, thank you so much for your service and for sharing your very valuable perspective and professional insights.

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Chris Steller

3:45 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Thank you, Callie, for linking your blog post. Spoiler: Mark down one Fridley High teacher is not in favor, for a whole bunch of reasons.

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Mark Rogers

8:22 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Teachers are people. If they choose to carry a weapon for self defense, that should be their choice. Yes, they would need to obtain a carry permit, they would need to pass a background check. If they can, then they should be allowed to carry.

We really need to end this BS of "gun free zones"...it's simply not helping...only the lawful and sane care about being in a gun free zone...to the criminals and crazies they use it to their advantage. We need to end this.

I am not in favor of forcing someone to carry a weapon. That's dumb.

However, I get to choose to put dead bolts on my doors. I get to choose if I want a fire extinguisher in my home, I get to choose if I want an alarm in my house. I take these precautions and some do not...it's ok to be different but I should get to choose my level of precaution. It's my right!

Guns are not for everyone and that's ok, but if YOU feel that you would like a weapon to protect yourself, then that's YOUR decision.

And once we start allowing honest, law abiding, background checked, permit holders to carry on schools and any other public place, the better off we all will be,

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Amy Paddock

7:26 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

Mark, I appreciate the thoughts on this. I have participated in schools as well as been a part of being around children in a formal setting. I am going try to offer some of my own insight. First, I am not against responsible people owning guns. I grew up around guns, & I know others know how to use them and know how to respect them. However, being trained in knowing how to use and shoot a gun isn't enough. It doesn't train a person know how to react in given situations or prepare them for emotional response. Wearing, or being trained a little, to use a gun doesn't do that. Each person will respond different to any given situation. Law enforcement has more training in this, but even they are not safe from mistakes in judgement, or any other mistake.

Wearing guns, or having them for easy access in area's where there are so many kids, and so many different situations, I do see many more problems. I know of two situations where someone who was wearing a gun in a holster, that the gun went off. I know how easy it is for something to happen around kids at anytime. Teachers w/younger children are around kids who grab, hug & etc. Teachers bend, kneel sit, etc. This puts that gun in reach. Each age, each individual child has their own set of challenges. A teacher has enough to focus on in the classroom w/o having to worry abt thinking where that gun is at all times. cont/d

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Amy Paddock

7:28 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

In addition, I would like to point out that those kids, that do have problems - now has another access point to a gun. I support teachers in every way, but I know that there are those very few examples where a teacher can snap, or put kids in a position to feel threatened b/c of a teacher's authority. Now add a teacher who your child knows is wearing or has access to a gun. See this example:
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/316943/28/Teacher-accused-of-firing-blanks-at-students
In a situation like what happened in Conn. I would much rather my child's teacher thinking about where to put those children to try and keep them safe, rather then making them a bigger target when their teacher starts shooting at a crazed person. Again, we need to realize that each situation that these teachers may face would be different then a planned senerio in people's minds.

If there is going to be protection, my suggestion would be before entry point in school, and/or an individual hired for only that purpose of security. Being armed is not should not be the cover answer for every threat either. There is more wrong with this idea, but I think this may open people's view just a bit more, or perhaps open up this discussion to other idea's.

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B. Martin

9:15 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

As you wrote, you choose actions in your house. You do not have free rein to choose actions that impact others. For those actions, such as a concealed weapon, others in a society have input. Currently, most favor increased gun control, particularly in public spaces.

Rod Trocke

8:24 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Well we already have a police person in our schools and I would guess they have a gun so what is wrong with a teacher (trained) to also carry a firearm? One can have all the rules and regulations but nothing is going to stop a person from obtaining a weapon and using it if they want to. They are allowing Judges and Lawyers to carry might just as we'll add any teacher who would want to.

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Timothy Larsen

8:44 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012

Teachers simply do not need this on their already very full plate.

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Mike Hindin

7:27 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

The 357 magnum is capable of cracking the block of a car engine. How many unintended victims will there be if this weapon is fired accidently or purposefully? interior school walls or frame house walls won't stop it. /who is liable for the unintende victims? A neighbor accidently discharged his 38 caliber revolver while "cleaning it" and the bullet was found in the bathroom of a neighbor's house. Imagine how many walls and bodies a 357 will penetrate. A police person has many hours of specialized training and refresher training to react in combat situations and they still make mistakes. The police or securityperson has full time responsibility for the weapon they carry. They don't have teaching responsibilites which involve close interaction wtih students. There are no places to safely store a weapon in the classroom and a safely stored weapon is not available to fight a shooter.

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Shelly

9:41 am on Friday, December 21, 2012

Here is what scares me - I work in a school and have been following the recent (also just last week) story about the licensed substitute teacher arrested in Bloomington for physically assaulting three 5th grade students in school. Hmmm, glad this teacher wasn't permitted to carry while teaching!!! More guns are not the answer - more attention to mental health would be a more logical response. If teachers are permitted to carry, it will have a devastating effect on the public school districts as masses of parents pull their children out to home school and staff seek other jobs outside public education. This needs some serious consideration rather than knee-jerk reaction. The fall-out will effect so many different aspects in our country's education system. Right now I am not scared to be at work, but if everyone around me was carrying a gun, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat!!

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Lee Phannavong

1:46 pm on Friday, December 21, 2012

The only way good guy teachers can stop bad guys with guns are teachers with gun cuz by the time they call police which is about a miles away that would be too late.

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John

1:18 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

I hope that there isn't a big overreaction to these murders. First off, it's unlikely that armed security or armed teachers would have prevented the killings. If someone walks into a place ready to kill, it's very difficult to react fast enough to stop that person even if you're armed. And if a security person or a teacher was prepared to pull the trigger within a split second of spotting danger, it's more likely that the person will be mistaken when firing their weapon and shoot an innocent person.

Also, I think that more discussion should focus on whether this catastophe would have occurred if the mother didn't have any guns. From my recollection, most of the time the guns used in these crazed murder suicides are guns that were legally owned. In other words, the killers didn't buy the guns illegally. In general, I think that keeping a gun in the house is bad news. If you're a collector, hunter, or marksman, keep your guns at your clubs. This doesn't need to be a law - just a common practice.

It won't help to make schools more of a fortress than they already are.

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lee Levong

3:51 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

If the Sandy Hook Elementary principal had a gun she could have pop that bad guy instead she died while lunging along with the school psychologist at the gunman in an attempt to overpower him

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Mandy Meisner

7:12 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Lee, that is assuming the principal HAD the gun on her "ready to go" AND that she would have had the wits about her to take action, AND that she (or another armed "official") would have the been the FIRST PERSON to meet the killer.

All the above is possible, but highly unlikely...

I 100% agree with Mr. Mau's points.

lee Levong

4:01 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Armed security or armed teachers couldn't prevented the killing but at least they have something to fight back instead of standing there waiting to be shot Why do you think these crazy guys choose school because they know that it is gun free zone and no one will fight them back.

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John

7:40 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Sometimes the killer chooses a school because he wants revenge on people than have wronged him (in his mind anyway). Other times, I think a school is chosen because killing children brings an even greater amount of heartache to the world than if the victims were adullts. Also, there's a very high concentration of people in small enclosed spaces at a school.

A lot more deaths could be prevented by making parents' houses gun-free zones than by putting guns in schools.

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navong621

2:08 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

So what are you gonna do when the next Adam lanza comes at you? Nothing. So why not be prepare.

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guy davidson

5:27 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

I believe some schools have policemen or at least security of that sort already - that seems like the most logical solution... a good guy with a gun who knows how to use it might have helped in this type of situation.

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guy davidson

5:28 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

in terms of recognizing a threat etc - the last two of these media serial killers were wearing fatigues and bulletproof armor - kind of a give away of their intentions.

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John

5:55 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Sometimes, preparing for the worst is so expensive financially and emotionally, that it makes more sense to hope for the best. I mean, we could drive around in heavy steel cars at 20 mph and be a lot less likely to die in a car accident. But we don't because the risk of death in a car accident isn't worth it costing 3 times more and taking 3 times longer to get somewhere.

Remember that supposedly good guys with guns have been known to shoot at unarmed boys with hoodies. Even with highly trained police officers, this happens far more often than is ever acknowledged or proven. I think the children are probably safer without some $13 an hour frustrated armed "security" guard at the school.

I agree that if it were a truly "good guy with a gun", that might help in some cases. There just aren't that many of them out there - and you can't always tell if the person is going to have the split-second judgment needed for the job. Way more can go wrong in this situation than can go right.

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Donald Lee

6:43 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

I am surprised at the subtext of this comment stream that presumes that the rules for carrying a weapon would be the same everywhere. It seems to me that there are still rural areas, and some schools (one my son attended) where weapons are part of the curriculum, and are commonly carried back and forth to school. Other places, it might be highly inappropriate.

It is also illogical to think that a teacher with a carry permit would have a particular problem with losing control of his weapon, if he carried it in school any more than he would if he carried it at the state fair. Those who have carry permits realize that they are carrying a deadly weapon, and they are very, very careful to maintain control of the weapon. No difference in school.

Allowing a teacher with a permit to bring his weapon to school, but making him put it in the safe in the office is pointless. When the shooter arrives, the weapon is pretty useless if it's not readily available.

There may be good reasons to do this different ways. Some approaches may work, and some may not. There is absolutely NO reason this issue demands a FEDERAL solution. The only mention of firearms in the constitution is the 2nd amendment. It seems to me that suggests that the federal government should have a truly minimal role.

If this is addressed, it should be done at the state level.

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John

10:46 pm on Saturday, December 22, 2012

You're right Donald. It's a state issue. Congress and President Obama should stay out of it.

B_Schiff

1:40 pm on Sunday, December 23, 2012

No way. Don't we need more federals making sure we are all safe? Put the TSA in every school, church, mall, theatre, highway and bathroom. Let's make sure we are safe by having a federal presence everywhere. ....surrrrre

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Donald Lee

9:51 pm on Sunday, December 23, 2012

... we need a sarcasm font... ;->

guy davidson

5:41 pm on Monday, December 24, 2012

Ah for the old days - In the sixties all we had to worry about we the Russian Nuclear threat.

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guy davidson

5:41 pm on Monday, December 24, 2012

and getting home in time for dinner

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Cassandra Lundgren

2:43 am on Sunday, March 17, 2013

teachers please just focus on teaching our youth... leave the security..defense and protection to armed guards or trained professionals in using them and protecting .... a classroom is a handful ... and all it does is give the idea inside the one student's brain..
i can get access .. now...plan ...

disarm teacher cause she/he isn't paying attention to the subtle cues or at all to the weapon, or student... NO GOOD! !!!

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